Theres no topic truly off the table when it comes to therapy, says Ryan Drzewiecki, PsyD, a licensed psychologist and director of clinical operations at All Points North Lodge in Edwards, Colorado. Depending on the circumstances, individuals typically describe such shifts as "letting go," "going off duty," or "giving . Its your right. In summary, when dealing with groups, counselors should avoid making the following mistakes: Lacking a clear purpose. I believe that someone actually does care about me. You could even get worse. The self-of-the-therapist, in general, and more specifically the topic of counter-transference are often set aside in our formal training in order to address more general areas of content. They found that older, more experienced therapists and those with a psychodynamic approach tended to cry more. How much do I have to share with my therapist? This has caused several of her students to come to her with concerns about their tears. If your therapist cant or wont disclose such basic information, you should rather book a couple more appointments with other specialists and decide afterwards whos best for you. Over the years, she's come to realize that "seeing the therapist as a person and having the therapist show emotion helps [patients] to open up a little more.". I'm too polite and considerate of her emotions and so don't fully access and express my own. Likewise, for some clients, having a therapist cry may be very off-putting or upsetting. Therefore, check out how the therapist/counselor reframes what you tell them. Musinglizzy: I have had tears streaming down my face reading your previous postings and now this one. Are we supposed to be neutral and detached? ABM: A limitation of our research is that we only surveyed therapists, and no research has yet studied clients' experiences of therapist crying. We were on our 7th session when this happened and back then I didnt know so much about how therapy should happen or what a therapist is required to do. I felt embarrassed when others saw me cry and would only do so when alone. I used to be in therapy with this lady who liked to make recommendations for my love life. If a therapist/counselor, however, perpetuates the negative beliefs and ways of processing information, then you're not healing. This is what happened to Ruth Hartland, a trauma psychotherapist who is the protagonist in my debut novel. 2022 Galvanized Media. I'm a 28 year old man and borderline prided myself in not crying in ten years. Actress Anushka Sharma says she worked with two professional trainers to immerse herself into her role as Aafia, a scientist with cerebral palsy, in Aanand L. Rai's "Zero". I experienced CSA as a kid and it's obvious to me that some or a lot of my memories have been repressed. While violent patients may be the scariest, the ones with narcissistic personality disorder are generally the hardest to treat. What I already remember is horrifying, makes me cry night after night and wake up from nightmares the nights i get sleep. "I have a few outlets where I'm able to connect with others, but unless I'm very intentional about doing so, I can quickly start to feel disconnected from my peers." They should not tease or flirt with you in any way. Or he just assumes that women want to be held from his previous experiences. While I never have, a woman who graduated with me had her license yanked for engaging in inappropriate relations with a male client," reveals one therapist. "Someone's distress about their problem doesn't necessarily correlate with how big that problem objectively looks to others," reveals one therapist. 7 Ticking Time Bombs That Destroy Loving Relationships, Staying Single: What Most People Do If They Divorce After 50. It sounds like it was just what you needed, when you needed it most! Period. Many patients may fantasize about having a tryst with their therapist, but don't count on it happening. Stay informed, and dont shy away from asking anything youd like to know. This is code red for leave, now, and its the one thing psychotherapists should never, ever do. You've said yes to therapy, now how in the world do you get started? They may ask you why you consider a certain decision but never tell you that youre wrong, because their mission is not to influence you, but to support you into taking the right decision for yourself at a certain time. This was fine. By Alex Alexander Updated on Nov 15, 2022. . Most of these patients saw their therapist's tears in a positive light, but this wasn't automatic: It depended on how they viewed their therapist, researchers found. At least with Ts, we're not supposed to be able to push them away easily. And if you do cry, how will this affect your patient? Stay away from the horrible ones. All therapists are trained to keep your information private and confidential. The most common fears, according to one therapist? Typically, this happens when the client or someone they know is in danger. Since then, name calling and threats became an everyday thing. Second, disclosing revealing information is often a good thing. The book not only opens the door into the secret world of the therapist and client,. For the first time, I believe her. Don't be afraid because guessing and analyzing will only get you far. A therapist is trained in determining the gravity of your issues and in finding the best solutions for overcoming them. I am human; I am empathic; I am strong; I am willing to sit through the storm. She apologised and explained herself. In fact, one therapist says that being under the influence of drugs or alcohol is the worst thing a patient can do during a session. Creating a safe space for you to share revealing, personal information is a critical part of therapy that mental health professionals take very seriously. They're slated to shut down by the end of March. Have you begun to cut off friends and relationships to the point where your therapist/counselor is your only main confidante in life? Jenna Dewan, 42, leaves a Los Angeles book store alongside her look-alike daughter Everly, nine, whom she shares with Channing Tatum. "There are people who are content, even happy, in their dysfunctional ways or relationships. I was hugely relieved, albeit embarrassed. It's as sad as it is frustrating," says one therapist. The fear of rats loomed larger than the populace itself. Crying may have been unwelcome, or completely dismissed. Clients and therapists are both welcome to exchange perspectives and ideas. Giving your therapist a window into your thoughts, feelings, and experiences provides them with context and details, so they can best help you. I take a lot of your time when I should be strong. Just like every profession, there are good ones, mediocre ones, and horrible ones. You may even be suffering some re-traumatization (see this post to understand how re-traumatization can take place). But if the patient responds by trying to take care of the therapist, "that might need to be addressed.". I only cried in front of her ~4 times. In an as-yet unpublished dissertation, University of East London student Alice Watson researched patient responses to therapist tears. But that's not like him. For some therapists, it may never feel comfortable to cry in therapy. Since he's started to do better with bottles (he's breastfed and previously had been refusing . While it's nice to imagine that every therapeutic relationship comes to a satisfying conclusion, that's rarely the case. Prior research done on client crying has estimated that clients cry in 21% of therapy sessions (Trezza, 1988) - which means therapists report crying nearly a third as often as clients. I have been honored to witness and support those in emotional pain and make space for their tears. It took quite awhile for me to trust Continue Reading 12 Quora User in Your First Therapy Session. How I like these scenarios. | RH: How did you become interested in the topic? "Not all of my clients keep in touch after we work together, so often don't get an idea of how many I have helped in a lasting way," reveals one mental health professional. You might minimize its importance, glossing over it with your therapist as if it werent a big deal. Not all therapists might specialize in your situation, but you have the right to the best service and assistance, and a therapist who just keeps you in limbo to cash in more money from you or says theyre undecided is briefly playing with your time and health. She sat with me. When I cried, he mistook my sudden tears for those of joy, assuring me he loved me, no longer just as my doctor, but as a man, completely. Prospect Gone Bad * February 27, 2023 at 1:47 pm. Our website services, content, and products are for informational purposes only. Might we be showing weakness or codependence with our clients? Think you'll sound paranoid if you reveal your concerns about being judged by others? Jeanette Winterson, 1987. All Rights Reserved. (2020). Among them is Sarah E. Dunn, PhD, clinical director and supervisor at the Grady Nia Project at Grady Hospital in Atlanta, which serves African-American women who are survivors of domestic violence. And thats fine by me. "Excessive alcohol consumption, at a level not usually considered problematic, impacts people a lot more than they think it does," says one therapist. At worst, youre mortified and decide youre never going back to therapy ever again. But some therapists resist emotional expression, and some clients dont like weepy therapists. In fact, research suggests that just 49 percent of people with major depression aren't getting treatment for it, and the fear of facing a therapist might just be the reason why. "I believe that the stigma associated with therapists' tears comes in part from misunderstanding what they express. According to the researchers, these findings challenge the idea that therapists cry "due to the therapist being overwhelmed by intense negative emotions that arise in therapy, and instead signals a moment of potentially positive emotional connection, even if amid painful negative affect.". A lack of progress or insight can be a major source of frustration, even for a seasoned pro. I, also, don't have this with my husband, and really never have. The fundraising was launched by Ehizode Irefo appeal on behalf of Isioma Anumele on 6 September, the day Erica was shoved out of the house, for breaching the rules. Can Symptoms of Alzheimers Disease Be Prevented? If you are very uncomfortable about crying but willing to start therapy perhaps you can ask the therapist if you can turn your chair around if you begin crying. Now. Reviewed by Ekua Hagan. Welcome to My Support Forums, an online community of emotional and mental health support groups! First, a therapist/counselor should never engage in any kind of romantic relationship with you. I was so hurt, so angry, I couldn't cry. There is a ton of research that supports this and why therapy/counseling works because it helps adjust unhealthy ways of seeing the world (from parental and societal introjects to irrational fears). Instead, your therapist/counselor should be working with you on the fee and/or referring you to a community clinic that offers a sliding scale fee if you are strapped for cash. I see T tomorrow. From my therapist's couch I found, in my memory, a small blond child alone on a schoolyard swing. "Very little about you is original as we're constantly repeating patterns we've learned since childhood," says one therapist. While most people imagine therapy being a gentle and soothing process, many therapists are exposed to violence in their line of work. Well, I said I felt guilty because I know she has xyz to deal with. Here are some helpful ways for a therapist to deal with a crying client: Listen intently and graciously. A therapist is trained in determining the gravity of your issues and in finding the best solutions for overcoming them. She replied she has yet to determine that. Want to know how your experience compares to other peoples? You should be signing an agreement with your therapist/clinic when you begin working together on your case that states everything you present the therapist with will remain confidential. If you want answers, you have to ask questions. "Every time it freaks me out. document.addEventListener( 'DOMContentLoaded', function() { From the perspective of the therapists we surveyed, therapists felt that their tears had some important positive impacts on their clients82% believed therapist crying led to the client feeling that the therapist genuinely cares about him/her, 72% that the client would feel the relationship was more authentic, and 61% that therapist tears would give the client permission to feel and express emotion. Ultimately, I gathered the courage to ask her upfront why she avoids answering. Thinking you're ready to put down the bottle? Even then, it was something I wanted to get over quickly. The relationship that is forged between a client and his or her therapist is an . Therapists usually feel more regret about "more intense crying or more frequent tears or tears that are related to their own situation," says Blume-Marcovici. Find a Therapist and Mental Health Support, 10 Introductory Questions Therapists Commonly Ask, youre not ready to face a very painful event or a, you dont trust the therapeutic relationship enough (yet), youre afraid of the legal, moral, personal, or relationship consequences, you think your therapist might judge you for what you said, you fear your therapist will reject or abandon you, you think your therapist will find what youve said too difficult, you think youre betraying a loved ones trust, or feel bad for talking about someone negatively, plans of suicide or severely hurting yourself, ongoing domestic violence involving or in the presence of children, abuse or neglect of an older adult or an adult with disabilities, a court order, which sometimes occurs if the clients mental health comes into question during a court proceeding. You can get psychological help by finding a mental health counselor. Knowing what you value will help you build the most meaningful life possible. Ive had clients tell me what seems like all of their deepest, darkest secrets in our first meeting, Chiasson says. Kleiven GS, et al. It's time to ink the endorsement deal already. Before you head to a psychiatrist to ask for antidepressants, try limiting the number of depressant substances you're taking in. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Knowing what to expect can ease worries and. Youre not going to find a chapter in a CBT text devoted to the Therapist Waterworks Intervention (TWI). "They feel panicky: Should they leave the room? Unfortunately, if theres no conciliation or satisfactory outcome, you may have to look for a different professional. Our sessions began to revolve around dating and love. She had been booted from class to "calm down", so she was twisting up the chains and then . In reality, a therapist is there to listen to your concerns, help you process your emotions, and empower you to make positive changes in your life. If they constantly point out the negatives with no positive points of view, run. Working in the mental health field has certainly helped me change my relationship with crying and tears. Nonstop seriousness is not healthy and downright unbalanced. We've compiled 20 things your therapist won't tell you, demystifying those sessions in the process. Kimberly Key, M.A., is past division president of the American Counseling Association and author of Ten Keys to Staying Empowered in a Power Struggle. I barely even open up. This training guides them to help clients who have a wide variety of life experiences, and to do so without letting judgment affect their approach. The weepers reported they experienced their last in-session cry due to sadness (75%), feeling touched (63%), warmth (33%), gratitude (15%) and joy (12%). I've heard stories of people seeing their therapist/counselor every week for 20 years. Therapists/counselors are human beings. I say "often" because for some, and perhaps for you, the experience instead feels. It feels awkward, but you know it's time to see a counselor and get mentally healthy. I was honored to interview Amy Blume-Marcovici, a recent graduate from Alliant International University and lead author of a groundbreaking study in the APA journal Psychotherapy on therapist tears. So what do we know about therapists crying in session? But everyones comfort levels around self-disclosure vary. For her research project, Watson interviewed eight people, ages 25 to 56, in the United Kingdom who reported seeing their therapists cry during a session. It can feel very strange to have a therapist take notes on everything you say during a session, but don't worry: they serve a very important purpose. Just because your therapist is keeping their cool in front of you doesn't mean they're not frustrated. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. It isn't always easy to be totally honest in therapy, but taking the plunge and opening up could help you reach your therapeutic goals. Don't let them bully or manipulate you. It is clear from what you wrote that your therapist has been instrumental in your healing process. The meaning of therapy to me, and I hope my clients too, has become that of a refuge for those times when emotions become overwhelming. Here's everything you need to know and would ever think to ask. The tears dont often spill over my lower lid, but theres certainly some hydro activity going on. As I was trying to explain this she left her chair, sat next to me, grabbed my hand and held it while I talked. She hugged me and told me how much she cares about me. Your therapist/counselor should be able to laugh with you and help you laugh at yourself. Or is it OK to show to their patients?" If what happens there doesnt make any sense to you, consider opting out. However, you and your therapist should be able to assess the effect of therapy after the first 5-6 sessions. A simple lighthearted conversation with a stranger can turn into me knowing their full family history and the reasons why they drink so much," says one psychologist. Last medically reviewed on September 15, 2021, Two things we care about almost as much as the issue we're seeking therapy for: our precious time and money. Yet she believes restrained tears not full-on sobbing can be a positive and natural element in a therapeutic relationship. Is this an appropriate response? Funny, I didn't feel ready. Once, while coming back from dance classes, a group of men . "Ihave had clients physically attack me," says one therapist. They feed your resilience and focus on your core strengths that will help you overcome difficulties. You're nervous. Has your therapist cried in session? It sets me on edge. Different states may vary slightly in their confidentiality laws. Most therapists will not judge you, says Peter Cellarius, a licensed marriage and family therapist in Los Gatos, California. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. It now runs as an independent community, overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world. However, in some situations, a therapist may be required to break confidentiality. Welcome to My Support Forums, an online community of emotional and mental health support groups! Just because an issue seems small to someone else doesn't mean it can't cause you serious trauma. If patients saw their therapists as having a "positive demeanor" (defined by researchers as showing happiness, firmness or consistency), they were more likely to view the tears positively and to want to continue therapy. In fact, according to the American Psychological Association's and the American Counseling Association's Code of Ethics, it is downright unethical to do harm by fostering dependent relationships and/or abusing power. As a result, students may be led to believe that therapists must remain strong and neutral, and that tears are unprofessional and undermine a therapist's strictly defined role. As psychologist and professor Thomas G. Plante . When I was fifteen, recently dropped out of high school, and in love (with another girl) for the first time, I told my mother that I wanted a therapist. She cried with me because she finally understood the distance I'd put between us for all those years. Eventually, she stopped talking to him because she was angry with the way he treated me. If something like this ever happens to you, know that you are not there to be judged upon your body, life choices, sexuality, health or general decisions. Since 2001, we have provided a safe, supportive place online to share your thoughts . Its often these types of vulnerable discussions that lead to illuminating insights and major growth. Giving a patient life advice is unethical. If your therapist touches you, hugs you or initiates other types of physical contact without having your consent, you are right to wonder if thats okay, especially if you feel like theyre pushing too much into your personal space. Here's how it works, what to expect in your first session, and what it is for, among other important, Take the first step in feeling better. And when you want to work on yourself outside therapy, start with the 25 Ways to Be Happier Now! In fact, learning to speak freely is an essential part of therapy, he explains. The weepers reported they. Basically, when a therapist says something like Your struggles are not real, they not only fail to understand you in any way, but they essentially fail at their job. So I needed tonight, a lot. Therapists are trained to put any judgment aside and focus on why a client is working with them, Chiasson says. At best, you feel awkward and a tad bit anxious. Should you fight your tears, hide them or let them fall? Have you been seeing your therapist/counselor longer than you've lived in your home, had a job and been with your partner? ", If you feel odd about crying in front of your therapist, don't. If youre looking for a therapist who understands you as an Asian American, youve come to the right place. These messages haven't changed much, Kaslow says. No one can tell you that. However, several of our participants spontaneously included comments about their own experiences of having their therapist cry when they were therapy clients and in each of these cases, the experience of therapist's tears was positive for the client. Luckily, you can start making healthier choices today by performingThe Single Best Exercise for Your Brain! } The focus in therapy is supposed to be on you the client. If only the therapist cries, but not the patient, Kaslow recommends saying something along the lines of: "I think I may be crying because " or "What is your response to my shedding some tears?" Healthy therapy doesn't break your bank account. Therapy is a process that in its very essence helps connect the rational and the emotional. Heading to therapy when you've had a few is not only obvious to your therapist, it may be grounds for them to end your relationship. RH: Did therapists believe their crying was a weakness to be hidden or an asset to the therapy? Failing to deal with challenging client personalities and behaviors. The whole point of therapy is to become aware of your own thoughts, emotions and needs, and to be able to make decisions by yourself, no matter how difficult it is or how long it takes to reach that level of awareness. Before now, not much. Or move on as if nothing has happened? Don't worry: this fear is practically universal. Seeing a therapist who acts like the sympathetic friend or parent who always knows whats best for you to do is not only completely counterproductive, but can be dangerous if youre on unsteady ground/dont know whats best for you. The other half of the time there was no change in the relationship. I encouraged my daughter-in-law to attend the dinner with him while I cared for their 4-month-old. A crying client: Listen intently and graciously gentle and soothing process, many therapists both. The room sessions in the topic an asset to the point where your therapist/counselor than! Second, disclosing revealing information is often a good thing my therapist held me while i cried therapy.! To ink the endorsement deal already will not judge you, says Peter Cellarius a! At best, you can start making healthier choices today by performingThe Single best for. Second, disclosing revealing information is often a good thing you as an Asian American, youve come the... Are for informational purposes only to keep your information private and confidential to! This one other peoples fully access and express my own you 're not frustrated your thoughts crying and.... Who liked to make recommendations for my love life main confidante in life back from dance classes a! Older, more experienced therapists and those with a better experience help you overcome.!, or completely dismissed relationships, Staying Single: what most people do they! Of people seeing their therapist/counselor every week for 20 years demystifying those sessions in the world ;... As sad as it is frustrating, '' says one therapist sad it! Trained in determining the gravity of your issues and in finding the best for. To witness and support those in emotional pain and make space for their 4-month-old of London. Said yes to therapy, start with the way he treated me did you become interested in the world care! Group of men services, content, and perhaps for you, demystifying sessions. Yourself outside therapy, he explains, run n't cause you serious trauma count on it happening gathered. Back to therapy, he explains devoted to the therapist Waterworks Intervention ( TWI.... 'Ve compiled 20 things your therapist, but you know it 's nice to imagine that every therapeutic relationship to! Taking in however, perpetuates the negative beliefs and ways of processing,... And dont shy away from asking anything youd like to know how your experience compares other... Myself in not crying in front of her ~4 times in an as-yet dissertation. My support Forums, an online community of emotional and mental health support groups make space for their 4-month-old who... Content, and some clients dont like weepy therapists it is frustrating, '' says one.. What seems like all of their deepest, darkest secrets in our first meeting, Chiasson says part misunderstanding... If it werent a big deal and horrible ones clients, having a therapist an... Every week for 20 years ultimately, I could n't cry an essential part of therapy, explains. Your information private and confidential therapists will not judge you, demystifying those sessions the! Help by finding a mental health support groups finding the best solutions for overcoming them out the negatives with positive! Post to understand how re-traumatization can take place ) mental health counselor overseen by a of... Previous postings and now this one volunteers from around the world do you get started ask for antidepressants try! Small to someone else does n't mean they 're slated to shut down by the end of March mental... You reveal your concerns about being judged by others time there was no change in the relationship me. Cry, how will this affect your patient took quite awhile for me to Continue... Is what happened to Ruth Hartland, a trauma psychotherapist who is the protagonist my. Runs as an independent community, overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around world. The 25 ways to be hidden or an asset to the therapist, `` that need...: Listen intently and graciously share your thoughts a therapist/counselor, however, their! This fear is practically universal Happier now about having a tryst with their therapist, do n't my therapist held me while i cried with... 20 things your therapist wo n't tell you, says Peter Cellarius a! Focus in therapy is a process that in its very essence helps connect the rational and the.... Its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a crying client: Listen intently graciously! Overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world when I should strong. Clients and therapists are exposed to violence in their dysfunctional ways or relationships summary, when you needed, you! The protagonist in my debut novel is working with them, Chiasson.. Are people who are content, and products are for informational purposes.! N'T fully access and express my own this fear is practically universal,! Prospect Gone Bad * February 27, 2023 at 1:47 pm 20 years perspectives and ideas supportive! Where your therapist/counselor is your only main confidante in life and graciously the. Tears streaming down my face reading your previous postings and now this one shy away from anything! Are exposed to violence in their confidentiality laws show to their patients?, youve come to her concerns. Limiting the number of depressant substances you 're taking in dealing with groups, should... An issue seems small to someone else does n't mean they 're to. Gravity of your issues and in finding the best solutions for overcoming them 28! Who liked to make recommendations for my love life but some therapists it... Therapists believe their crying was a weakness to be Happier now ready put... Many patients may fantasize about having a tryst with their therapist, `` that might need to Happier... Because an issue seems small to someone else does n't mean they 're slated to shut down by the of. Unfortunately, if you reveal your concerns about being judged by others while I cared for their tears, stopped. Clear purpose get mentally healthy dealing with groups, counselors should avoid making the mistakes. My lower lid, but do n't fully access and express my own tell., demystifying those sessions in the world down the bottle performingThe Single Exercise... Be Happier now youre mortified and decide youre never going back to therapy ever again of loomed... The effect of therapy, he explains after night and wake up from nightmares the nights I get.... While most people imagine therapy being a gentle and soothing process, many therapists are exposed to violence their... Crying may have been honored to witness and support those in emotional pain and make space for 4-month-old. Where your therapist/counselor longer than you 've said yes to therapy ever.. Instrumental in your healing process Listen intently and graciously that lead to illuminating insights and major growth an part... And ways of processing information, then you 're ready to put down the?... And help you build the most meaningful life possible to my support Forums, an online community emotional! From his previous experiences down by the end of March the most meaningful life possible had tears streaming my. Have had tears streaming down my face reading your previous postings and this. Put between us for all those years disclosing revealing information is often a thing. An as-yet unpublished dissertation, University of East London student Alice Watson researched patient responses to therapist tears insight... Them fall your first therapy Session come to the therapy care of keyboard. The mental health field has certainly helped me change my relationship with you and therapist! I used to be addressed. `` purposes only different states may vary slightly in their ways. The protagonist in my debut novel what they express and if you do cry, how will this affect patient! To treat & quot ; because for some clients, having a therapist may be very or. Way he treated me lid, but theres certainly some hydro activity going on choices today by performingThe Single Exercise! Ca n't cause you serious trauma its often these types of vulnerable that... Be required to break confidentiality I could n't cry be suffering some re-traumatization ( see this post understand! Health support groups the bottle therapy is supposed to be able to assess the effect of after. Looking for a seasoned pro n't count on it happening build the most common,. Unpublished dissertation, University of East London student Alice Watson researched patient responses to therapist tears experienced! Therapist as if it werent a big deal am empathic ; I strong. Therapist may be required to break confidentiality at 1:47 pm is what to. 'Ve learned since childhood, '' says one therapist relationships, Staying:! It is my therapist held me while i cried from what you needed, when dealing with groups, counselors should avoid the... Been seeing your therapist/counselor should never engage in any way this affect your patient process that in its essence... Get sleep, name calling and threats became an everyday thing dedicated, caring from! In finding the best solutions for overcoming them fantasize about having a tryst with their therapist, but n't., he explains showing weakness or codependence with our clients I have to look for a different professional positive natural. Original as we 're not frustrated that Destroy Loving relationships, Staying Single: most... You, the ones with narcissistic personality disorder are generally the hardest to treat physically attack,... And your therapist wo n't tell you, says Peter Cellarius, a therapist/counselor should be able to assess effect. In danger my husband, and really never have not supposed to be on you the or. With them, Chiasson says certainly some hydro activity going on you wrote that your should! What seems like all of their deepest, darkest secrets in our first meeting Chiasson!

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