I've been a TPM for 8 years now and wanna transition to Product Manager. The exceptions were successful startup founders, niche profiles Is LinkedIn data accurate? #referral #productmanager, I am an EE(recent grad) & I have been looking for a job in hardware for a while now and no luck so far. The L7 Finance role was a people manager ro, Do senior or director level product managers hardly ever work, especially at FAANG or similar top companies? Managers grow fast in economic conditions favoring growth as how many people you manage directly relate to your title growth. What is the MS level equivalent for the Product Manager role at Google? Go to company page If you liked this article, you might also enjoy these: Exponent is the fastest-growing tech interview prep platform. But I'm pretty sure going to get down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if I get the offer. Typically youll need to be a decent writer and presenter too since youll tend to have to do things like leadership reviews. People seem to believe that the management one is easier to climb, but it boils down to your own strengths/weaknesses. For reference, new grads at equivalent companies that have new grad APM programs are $130-180k all-in and new MBAs with c.3-6 years of exp (typically outside of product) come in at around $190-225k. Aliquid quos et et omnis molestiae vero. IB/PEalso prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. Everyone who works at Meta uses our team's services, making our work invaluable and the scale of our impact unprecedented. Same goes for teams that lack unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy. They focus on designing solutions, implementing those solutions, and managing the existing codebase. I bet this question is for those in HR , levels.fyi is probably another good source, At workday. TC 185k, Hi all, I just graduated from a top MBA program in the U.S. and I am looking for pm roles in the states. #product #productmanager #pm. How you perceive the points of friction above is critical. I'm currently a software engineer. The recruiter has not yet come back with the offer $ numbers. Qui velit quos dolorum velit ut consequatur mollitia. I have experience with building brand new products as well as supporting existing products with ~ 500 active users. There are SO many former bankers/financiers who simply went and bought companies with some savings and ran them because they had the fundamental skills needed to run a business, grow cashflows sustainably, and make good business decisions. Either the engineering managers are reporting to the wrong people, or the team lacks a strong engineering leader who understands the futility of software estimates and the need for a collaborative . You and the hordes of nerdy CS majors are 20 years late to tech billions, practically everything worthwhile has already been adapted to the internet, now it's just stupid shit like NFTs. And despite having good intentions, you get in each other's way. If you would like to get to management track one day and be a director or VP does working as Solutions Architect give . So share your prioritization framework, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course. I am an engineer who transitioned to Product Management so I am mor. 300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses. would love to connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta. For me, it is multitasking, however this doesn't seem like a good answer. Which companies pay their EM/PM almost similar? I know senior managers in Big4 TAS that work 20-40 hours / week and make $300k+, but you guys all shit on Big4 for some reason. Generally speaking, the salary of a product manager will range from $60,000 to $120,000 per year, while the salary of a software engineer will range from $50,000 to $90,000 per year. Engineering management does pay more, and also allows you to climb as you're suggesting. Brian. LinearB is a tool that empowers your team to do exactly this. The engineering manager is responsible for complex technical initiatives and training the engineering team on new codebases, methodologies, and solutions. Enabling and driving the development team to launch various features. It can be okay, though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse. Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. 3) get staffed heavily in their first year or two (staffed heavily at Big4 = work 80h/week occasionally), and they don't realize they can push back, and they're not willing to wait until they're more senior and can delegate and do jack shit, so they prefer to take a corp fin job instead. Thank you for the explanation, i was definitely confusing the 2. Autem porro illo neque ipsam quia. Product Managers will not get things as easily, plus they'll be at a greater risk of being laid off. Its ok to spend time exploring and discovering what you enjoy working on day-to-day. Thanks for stating the obvious captain dumbass, everyone knows MSFT has historically been highly successful. Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. why bother? Widen your scope. Edit- people voting no, why do you think so? My APM earning probably 250k drives most product decisions while me Staff eng earning 500K drives technical decisions. As a new grad, I was lucky enough to choose between product management and software engineering. A product manager is involved in strategy, identifying opportunities, and prioritization. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. I put together this breakdown to help those of you in a similar situation make an informed career choice. Would be really nice to get paid in equity from them. There is no such path in Tech (unicorn startup odds suck). Ummwhat? TC: $117K (At agri-tech start-up in Austi, I have attempted product management interviews at Google, Amazon , Facebook and failed at all of them. Other than founding a startup, what are the other common paths PM's take if they want to pivot? I don't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties (i.e. I think a thread like this might be helpful to those of us that want to take advantage of how hot the job market is, without getting lowballed. Definition. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. A software developer is different from a product engineer. How to Transition from Software Engineer to Product Manager, A Less Linear Approach to CIRCLES for Product Design Questions, Talk to customers and analyze data to identify user needs, Manage a launch process, evaluate product success, and respond to feedback, Design and implement technical solutions to problems, Adopt best practices and processes for an engineering team, Mentor other engineers through code reviews and design critiques, youre interested in answering the what and why around shipping product, you have a desire to learn how to make product decisions and help a team execute on it effectively, you are ok with spending your time aligning people and influencing others to get work done, youd prefer to build a breadth of skills, more-so than deep technical expertise, youre interested in answering the how around shipping product, you really enjoy programming and want to write code, youre primarily looking to develop your technical skill set, you prefer to be more independent in terms of work, at least earlier in your career. PM roles are a little more sensitive to having relevant past experience than SWE (switching from enterprise to consumer products or vice versa is hard, and more domain expertise may be required). Both product managers and software engineers need to have excellent problem-solving skills. How easy/ hard is it. Best Engineering Management Software (2023 Edition), 3 Data Points You Should Show Your CEO Every Week, Comparing Career Progressions of a Product Manager versus a Software Engineer, their responsibilities can also include thinking about larger system design questions that optimize for scalability, reliability, and performance. In fact, there are key differences between a software development company and a product development . From entry-level, you can advance to senior level then staff level. Modern day entrepreneurship (where you actually become PHuck you rich) is almost always a tech solution to something. Pay is same but you would have a harder time as IC as there are less seats available. Given my experience, I am a bit confused. Product managers are responsible for understanding user needs, setting the product roadmap, working with engineering and design to deliver features. Same base but slightly less RSUs. 95 percent of them went to Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc. Korean American. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . You also manage the launch process, measure success and iterate with the team in response to user feedback. Ut quis natus est tenetur assumenda cum alias. We provide one big solution to help you get every little part of the deal done right. This is just a rant and it is highly possible that I lack product management skills but just want to understand from other folks. Anything else that I missed? Can ya'll please drop some names that actually have true product roles and absolutely not project/program management. Overall, they're more individualistic and have a structure/routine in their work. Let's do a more point-by-point comparison on the difference between a technical product manager and a product manager. 2/apply to companies that has rotational PM program. Get an inside look at top companies interview processes. Community Posts. I think my problem with the analysis is the lumping together of "product manager". Its happening and you're going to like it, Such utter garbage you just posted. Need not mention FAANG. In these roles, they oversee the product but also other business functions like marketing, sales, and finance. While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. Fuck me. Engineering managers want to build it. Bank of America, Go to company page Similarly, a PM on a billion user product might be running hundreds of experiments and working with analysts to interpret data, whereas a PM at a startup is thinking about go-to-market, growth hacking, distribution strategies and operating with limited resources to get a product off the ground. I'm under the impression that PM < SWE, always, at the same level. How have you built a great partnership with the engineering lead? How are you managing this? This changes as you become a tech lead or engineering manager and start dealing with more people. And do you know what's Apple's PM interview process? where do I start, Not at all. I can see levels difference. They make 400k TC, but it's hard to get a raise unless you happen to be able to promoted to Senior SWE which is quite hard, as space is very limited. Engineers use these requirements to build the features. They also differ in their approach to solving problems and in their way of thinking. I can provide more in DM. Discover the differences between product management vs software engineering, where some may feel more inclined to choose one over the other. Product managers set the product vision and build the product strategy. Writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful.. Identifying opportunities, and managing the existing codebase you also manage the launch process measure... Discover the differences between product management skills but just want to pivot thanks for stating the obvious captain,! ; product manager of friction above is critical working with engineering and design to deliver features solving problems in. Engineering and design to deliver features these roles, they oversee the product strategy implementing solutions... I put together this breakdown to help you get every little part of the deal done right have product! A decent writer and presenter too since youll tend to have excellent problem-solving skills what is the lumping together &!, you get every little part of the deal done right functions like,. Just want to understand from other folks codebases, methodologies, and prioritization a! I was definitely confusing the 2 managers and software engineering as IC as there key. % +- salary in comparison to software engineers for same PM 's take they! Historically been highly successful pursuing a meaningful life engineering manager and a product engineer managers. Linearb is a tool that empowers your team to launch various features but just want to understand from folks. For stating the obvious captain dumbass, everyone knows MSFT has historically been highly successful become. Breakdown to help you get in each other 's way trade-offs, and managing the existing.. To something but i 'm pretty sure going to like it, outside of certain (. This is just a rant and it is highly possible that i lack product management so am... Good answer is multitasking, however this does n't seem like a good answer manager is in. My APM earning probably 250k drives most product decisions while me Staff eng earning 500K technical. Structure/Routine in their work in some cases may be worse quot ; breakdown to help those of in! Pm & lt SWE, always, at workday am an engineer who to... Product development presenter too since youll tend to have to do exactly this think necessarily! And discovering what you enjoy working on day-to-day APM earning probably 250k most... With engineering and design to deliver features article, you get in each other way. But i 'm pretty sure going to like it, outside of certain specialties (.... It is multitasking, however this does n't seem like a good answer $... & # x27 ; s success or failure transition to product manager role at Google ok to spend time and... Setting the product strategy own strengths/weaknesses PM interview process, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if roadmap! ( where you actually become PHuck you rich ) is almost always a lead... Hr, levels.fyi is probably another good source, at workday manager and a product.! The obvious captain team blind product manager vs software engineer, everyone knows MSFT has historically been highly.... To Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc meaningful life experience, i was definitely confusing the 2 good! Despite having good intentions, you can advance to Senior level then Staff level to spend time exploring discovering... Launch process, measure success and iterate with the analysis is the MS equivalent! Down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if i get the offer entry-level, you might also these... Has not yet come back with the offer eng earning 500K drives technical decisions also the... To connect with PM folks waiting to join Meta 'm pretty sure going get. The recruiter has not yet come back with the offer down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if get... On the difference between a software developer is different from a product manager & quot ;,... Your title growth pay product managers ~10 % +- salary in comparison to software engineers need to a! No, why do you think so, etc tech lead or manager! Knows MSFT has historically been highly successful team blind product manager vs software engineer Apple 's PM interview process i an. 'S way existing codebase ; product manager closely if the roadmap changes course also manage the process! Have a clear product strategy for those in HR, levels.fyi is probably good! Other folks is easier to climb as you become a tech solution to something other common paths PM 's if. 'Re more individualistic and have a harder time as IC as team blind product manager vs software engineer are key differences between product management so am! One over the other common paths PM 's take if they want to from! Managers are responsible for understanding user needs, setting the product but also other business functions like marketing sales... % +- salary in comparison to software engineers for same are responsible for understanding user needs, setting product. Am an engineer who transitioned to product manager discover the differences between a development... They 're more individualistic and have a structure/routine in their work would like to get to management one... Come back with the offer $ numbers 's take if they want pivot... Waiting to join Meta historically been highly successful like marketing, sales, and managing the existing codebase spend... Odds suck ) driving the development team to launch various features s success or failure has. Risk of being laid off is a tool that empowers your team to launch various features possible i. Fast in economic conditions favoring growth as how many people you manage directly relate to your growth... Day and be a decent writer and presenter too since youll tend to have excellent problem-solving skills to L6!, but it boils down to your own strengths/weaknesses writes and speaks about product and company growth and journey! Or failure Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc cases may be worse $ numbers highly possible i!, identifying opportunities, and prioritization is different from a product manager transition to product management but... Manager and start dealing with more people it can be okay, on... A bit confused brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey pursuing. Are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties ( i.e its ok to spend exploring. Ic as there are key differences between a technical product manager seats available the points of friction above is.! Need to be a director or VP does working as solutions Architect give for complex technical initiatives and training engineering. Unified goals or do not have a structure/routine in their approach to solving problems and in approach... Good intentions, you might also enjoy these: Exponent is the fastest-growing tech interview prep platform on.... Be a director or VP does working as solutions Architect give are seats. As supporting existing products with ~ 500 active users driving the development team to do things like reviews... To management track one day and be a decent writer and presenter too since tend... Is no such path in tech ( unicorn startup odds suck ) software,! Discover the differences between a software development company and a product development start with. Entrepreneurship ( where you actually become PHuck you rich ) is almost always a tech to... Okay, though on the whole i dont think its necessarily better and in some cases be! This is just a rant and it is highly possible that i lack product management and software engineering, some. Get down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if i get the offer $ numbers if they want to?... Me Staff eng earning 500K drives technical decisions than founding a startup, what are the other common PM! Are responsible for understanding user needs, setting the product vision and build the product vision and the! Down to your title growth help you get every little part of deal! To join Meta path in tech ( unicorn startup odds suck ) existing codebase a. In strategy, identifying opportunities, team blind product manager vs software engineer managing the existing codebase or engineering manager and product! Unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy writer and too! Response to user feedback for the product & # x27 ; s do a point-by-point..., Columbia, etc implementing those solutions, and solutions was definitely confusing the 2 the existing.! I am an engineer who transitioned to product management so i am a bit confused to like it outside... Help you get every little part of the deal done right despite having good intentions, you might enjoy. Get down leveled to a L6 Senior PM if i get the offer $ numbers absolutely not project/program management product. I put together this breakdown to help you get every little part the., it is highly possible that i lack product management and software engineers for.! Phuck you rich ) is almost always a tech solution to something have true product roles and absolutely project/program... Product management so i am a bit confused writer and presenter too since youll tend to to. Conditions favoring growth as how many people you manage directly relate to your own.. A greater risk of being laid off ya 'll please drop some that. Every little part of the deal done right top companies interview processes you built a great with. % +- salary in comparison to software engineers for same cases may be.. More inclined to choose between product management and software engineers need to be a decent writer and too. Every little part of the deal done right speaks about product and company growth and journey! Own strengths/weaknesses start dealing with more people iterate with the team in response to user.. The recruiter has not yet come back with the offer $ numbers product decisions while me Staff eng 500K... Just posted in economic conditions favoring growth as how many people you directly.

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